121302-wildstar-i-came-i-saw-i-unsubbed
Content ---- ---- ---- There are 5 zones and a 6th next month i believe. On which server did you play since you said no population? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- people left. true. but now; whats the plan to bring new players in? they really have it hard right now and cannot experience the game as it is intended because of no group content pop and nobody killing boss mobs etc. its very dry and demanding on new players... and that will need to change. | |} ---- Their plan is to wait until they feel the game is good enough to advertise (meanwhile the snowball grows). So it could be weeks, months, who knows. | |} ---- ---- ---- Wow, the inevitable "attunement" I quit thread... Again... Does this not indicate a problem to you? That so many people list this as a reason for leaving? Yes, join a guild and beg them to help you is the correct way to do it in a timely manner. But who that left over it didn't think of that? It still takes time, often a long time, unless you have flat out amazing guildies that are willing to do content they hate, for hours and hours over a day or 2, to get you into GA. I've done it 6 times (3 of them pre bronze age!), I know all too well how hard it can be to drag people you barely know into doing the more annoying instances. And what it feels like to sit for hours trying to scrape groups together for world bosses. Flat out, no compromise, the attunement process has greatly injured the game. 100% independent your views on how hard/easy it can be. And from that position alone I don't think you can justify it as a healthy process. | |} ---- ---- Yes it does... People want things handed to them far to often. They have a desire to faceroll their way to epics and not put any effort into what they want. That's what this tells me. I do have flat out amazing guildies that run dungeons/adventures all the time for fun. If you had read thoroughly what I had written, you would have noticed the sentence I wrote where it says "The key is being in a guild that plays the game because they like to play the game." You would be amazed how well things work out when that happens... | |} ---- And what of the extremely common scenario where that's not the case? You essentially said "in a perfect world, it's easy". Which applies to very few people. What it tells me is that people don't want to work to be allowed to work. People here throw around the word "entitlement" a lot, like it makes them superior beings of gaming purity, and everyone else should want to do arbitrary BS so they can do what they really enjoy. Not everyone that just wants to get in a few hours of boss killing x3 times a week, without jumping through hoops, is an epic-crazed crybaby loser that wants mommy wildstar to spoon feed them. | |} ---- What does this matter? I've played with DS geared people that can't survive spew. One of the easiest most simple mechanic in the game. | |} ---- Which is exactly why they can go play one of the many MMOs where they can just step right in. Not everyone wants their raids to be flooded with people who don't know what they're doing; WS has that for them and, for many, it's one of the plethora of reasons they're here. | |} ---- As have I, but making a movement error is far different than being incapable of navigating the game, especially when two of those zones are right next to each other. | |} ---- People want this stupid hassle to exist so they can give a reason for their HARDCORE! guild to exist: carrying people through the stupid hassle. That's what this tells me. The problem is that people want to go do the things that are fun to them without having to do a long chain of side activities that seem to have little to do with the main activity itself. If they do have anything to do with it or not are a completely different matter. Perception is a strong thing: if the player doesn't perceive the side activities as worth their while or related to what they want to do, then they will at the very least squint at them. | |} ---- ---- I just hit 50 on my Esper alt a few days ago, and I got a ton of simultaneous comm calls, in terms of "what do to next". | |} ---- ---- You should have? How should you have found out about it? I don't recall any mission ever that told me to go join EntityLFM or even that explained that there ARE custom chat channels. | |} ---- It required a carry. People who provide carries really like processes that require them. Welcome to Nexus. | |} ---- ---- They have the level matching already. :) | |} ---- What it did was let that one determined baddie fall through the cracks while stopping the other tens for each one who made it. Like you said, errors happen, but it's a lot easier to filter out the problem when there's one or two sources rather than 15. | |} ---- ---- They can remove the attunement process but you already know the next step is complaining about the next problem they encounter, that's just the type of player you're looking at. I've had players leave the raid from rage because they can't stop dying on the early raid bosses in GA(they were carried through by other members I'm guessing). There's no easy mode GA to keep their fragile self-esteem high and they'll most likely quit when even they hit a wall in progress, get moved out of the main raid team, or feel like a large burden to the other 19 players in the raid. Same, but you can carry a couple people in DS and a couple people in GA and the same to attunement, doesn't change the fact that attunement (up till WBs) relates to gearing up and learning to group interrupt/CC break/dodge. | |} ---- I'm going to break down a chunk of things, rather than every little detail, for the sake of TL;DR syndrome. First Complaint: Base Content, Leveling, Etc I'm afraid you have WoW questing syndrome, you're just clicking through quests and burning through them, as you would in WoW. Wildstar has content that is meant to be read and enjoyed, hence why we have "lore cubes" and even a path dedicated to lore itself. This is a new universe, you can't expect everything to be spelled out to you, if you're not paying attention. To me, this entire aspect of just "clicking accept" and doing what the list on the right tells you, is an oxymoron within an MMORPG game, this is an RPG game...RPG's aren't fighters were the story is mostly irrelevant, nor a shooter were it's just context. The traditional baseline for a story driven game, is an RPG and far too many people have seem to forget this, in act with their need for consuming as much content, as fast as possible. (this is why people get either burnt out on content or end up needed content much faster than the dev intended). This problem, is indeed manufactured on your own. Not the communities, or the devs. Perhaps you would be better playing a MOBA, rather than an a RPG based game. Second Complaint: Level Cap, XP and Content Your mad because you didn't reach level cap in under two weeks? Once again, WoW syndrome. You expected to blaze through content, reach level cap and then have access to the "game". Some games are about the adventure to level cap, and then the "experience" after level cap. RPG's have always been about both of these, never just the "end" content. Wildstar was made with this in mind, which is why you can find a great amount of challenge in even lower level content. Figuring out how to expand your XP to progress further into the game at a quicker rate, is indeed there...but that's something you'll have to put actual effort into it, in order to find out what the "secret" is. But even with that, the JOURNEY between 1-50, is meant to be long on purpose. Which is why there is PLENTY of content inbetween. It's not like you just simply "ran" out of content at let's say level 20 and couldn't find a way to level up. This is once again, a common symptom created by WoW, and it's damaging the MMO community in my opinion. Population problem? I think that. An issue with the way the que works? Yes indeed. However, i've found myself waiting long lengths in WoW as well, depending on the content and my role...it wasn't uncommon to have 20-30+ minute waits for WoW instance content, or 1-2 hours for LFR content, IF you did not have an actually active guild. Wildstar was made in mind, with the traditional guild structure, MMORPG's, believe it or not, were social experiences...shocking, I know. So once again, a problem with you, not the community, nor Wildstar. P.S. You're talking about raiding, yet you were nowhere near level 50...so how can you judge the state of grouping for raids, without having any knowledge of what that situation is like? (FYI If you actually played vanilla WoW *unlike most who claim they did*, you would know that the original later game content and the level grind, was rather equal to this game, along with many other MMORPG's that are responsible for WoW in the first place) Third Complaint: PVP/Warplots/Gear/Level Ratios. So let me get this straight, you're mad because you lost in PVP, rather than stomping people into dust? You said you did all this research on the game, but did you stop to think that every class can be a primary DPS class? So is it really that shocking that a Medic, could be a DPS class with maybe a healer ability or two for support? Just like in EVERY other MMO that adapts this concept where players are scaled up, or down (WoW does this in some cases too), if someone is a level 50 and you're a level 20, yet you're both matched to let's say level 20 or level 50, given the same ROUGH stats (based on many different things, including PVP resistance, etc)...you're mad because they beat you? Did you stop to think that the level 50 player, most likely knows their character FAR more than you do, therefor them beating you, comes down to experience and skill, rather than an unfair advantage. If you learned your character in and out better and prepared some what more, you wouldn't have had this problem most likely. Last Complaint(s):No Population, Daily Quest Zones, etc. Apparently there is a misunderstanding to how the base audience is in this game, judging from your experience, i'm starting to think you didn't even reach the main town for each faction, nor the more player filled PVE zones. As the first two zones, can be slightly barren places, but no more barren than other places in WoW. However from there on, you'll generally be running into players often...it seems you weren't paying attention to your surroundings, because i've yet to hop into the game and barely run into anyone. Daily quests...oh daily quests. You're complaining about dailies, yet you did not reach level cap, nor did you explore the player housing, path systems etc. Wildstar was made in mind to DESTROY the annoying daily quests that WoW has (and i'm sure you've complained about, because anyone who says they like dailies in WoW, has lost their mind). Wildstar doesn't use a traditional "daily" system, but mixes dailies through various means...rather it be through path related quests, crafting/gathering skill quests, home base mini-quests (you can BUILD your own mini-dailies) and much more. I'm sorry that something doesn't do things the exact same way WoW does in this regard. With all of that said, it seems that you're not ready to break away from WoW and that's perfectly fine. I played Wildstar in the Beta and at launch, I left after a month and went back to WoW, and then taking into account what I found within Wildstar, I grew very tired of the "hand holding, immaturity" and much more in WoW and came back to Wildstar, and have never looked back. You're basing your entire experience of a game, that it sounds like you had fun with, on your experience with a game that has zero relation with Wildstar OTHER than the fact that some of the original dev's of WoW, helped make Wildstar. Not all MMORPG's are the same, nor should they be. The quicker you learn how to break out of your comfort zone and re-learn things, and even more so, the MUCH more complex way Wildstar plays and functions, the quicker you'll find a fantastic, though somewhat flawed (every game is) experience that is only getting better every day. So with that, I bid you farewell and hopefully you'll "see the light" and come back to Wildstar in the future. | |} ---- I PUG raid constantly, and often fill in for major guilds (in addition to raiding with my actual guild), and I've never seen anyone rage quit a raid. Not once. I don't subscribe to the slippery slope fallacy either. You don't keep a broken process out of fear that people might find something else worthy of complaint. That's not sensible or smart. I like the dungeon part of attunement, and I'd love to see that stay (and even bumped to silver again!). But the rep? Adventures? WBs? Stupid KV optional? It's time wasting trash, and many people see it as exactly that. As for an easy mode GA, why not? If it offers proportionally lower rewards, why not give the bottom 20% something that keeps them paying CS $15/mo? Does it hurt YOU in any way? | |} ---- ---- Good catch | |} ---- ...Sorry, I'm not seeing it. How are you deciding that you know who this person is? :huh: | |} ---- ---- I agree with you 100%. Gaming, in the last ten years, has seemed to have shifted from having some sort of problem to solve or reaching a particular goal to just being told you can do anything your imagination dreams up. Sorry to burst your bubbles, but every game ever made is a niche game because it's impossible to please everybody. So find the game that suites you best and quit destroying those that others enjoy. | |} ---- Spot on. Thats why im gona try wildstar tomorrow. Looks like a game i could enjoy not just farm my way to the top and and run around doing nothing after. I enjoy a challange aslong there are others that do the same then u can try to solve it get what u need (attun, gear etc) a go for the top :). The game nerver ends so why rush tru all content ? Pvp sounnds abit unfair tho i hope they fix that :) | |} ---- Amen to this. I never understand when someone joins a guild and just thinks everyone needs to drop what they are doing and help you get attuned. It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm not the friendlest person on the planet, but I don't want to run someone through all that crap then have them quit in two weeks. The Attunement quest is a joke it creates a useless barrier to content keeps, people out of the game and makes creating alts not worth it. More to the point is the queue time for dungeons if you don't go with your premades is a joke if you are dps. So you are forced to gear up as a healer or a tank just to abandon all that gear once you start raiding as a dps. It's broken process and more players have left the game because of it than almost anything else. | |} ---- ---- Yeah, this is pretty much typical on these forums, unfortunately. Sorry that you had to experience it. Rest assured, many of us agree with your basic assessment of the game and--frequently in spite of genuinely hysterical screams of the hardcore here--the game's developers have in fact made a number of moves to try to appeal more to casual players at endgame. They will no doubt continue to do so for as long as the game is actively trying to remain relevant. So thanks much for your comments and feedback, and please be aware that the "Go play something else" crowd does not represent the majority of Wildstar players no matter how loud and prolific they are on the forums. | |} ---- Ty because i actually liked the game allot, but with little direction as a new player i having to do google searches to find "wheres the daily zones" and "how to max skills" simple things that i feel a game should have is unacceptable. I really hope that my soapbox commentary will help the devs see that its GREAT to have that 1% of hardkore players.. but you wont pay the bills with the people that are farming the money to buy next months sub. you need those lazy casuals like me to be "spoon fed" and happy to keep your game open. Maybe one day they will work to appeal to the casual who knows.. till then off to a diff game that is working to keep my money going to them and not wildstar.. Really sorry to see that the rejects from other games are whats making up your 1% btw... haters and GTFO so im leet are all you have here, kinda wish i would have seen it with an actual population. Maybe i would have a diff opinion. | |} ---- ---- ---- | |} ---- This is something that is nice to see around here and far from the cry's of only my play style counts. I hope to see more people posting on the forums but sadly this is a place currently when people express a concern they are shouted down as idiots and lazy. I'm happy the DEV's are finally listening and I hope they take the steps to keep this game growing strong. I think when they game came out the sorely mistrusted fans cry's for love of the days of yore. Those days are gone for a reason and outside of some memory's most people feel better off leaving them in the past. I still say anything that stands in the way of people joining content is a game killer. aka Attunement. It's for the raid leader to know when your gear and play is ready to come in and give it a try, not for an arbitrary quest that most people don't want to do again to set that bar. I also love how I see you and CL's comments getting multiple likes while the naysayers maybe pick up one. Keep up the common sense. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I think this is the most rational argument against WS's attunement process I've ever seen on these forums. You're right; attunement should have come between raids. And perhaps an "introductory" raid before GA, one that you can participate in while also working on your attunement, is a wonderful answer. It always pains me when I see games working backward and implementing their intros after their endgame (hello Protostar Games), but I really do think this needs to happen. | |} ---- The issue there is it would have been cleared, on farm, and obsolete months ago (or if introduced now, in a week or 2). And it would probably be difficult to find a group for it/guild that would rather run that than GA on DS off nights. I mean, it's still a great idea for more casual/new guilds who are still in GA, as a way to gear up past dungeons to give them an edge while progressing, but it would probably have to be 8-15 man instead of 20 to ease the pain of finding 20 people that actually want to do it given how few new raiders there are. Maybe if it gave extra rewards (EG/Glory/BoA gear tokens/AMP AP points, whatever) if your attunement key was 13/13, so progressed raiders have a reason to go there? | |} ---- Or maybe an EG weekly, like OMNIcore-1. | |} ---- ---- Actually, I'd argue against scaling. One of the BIGGEST reasons DS was scaled down to 20 man was pure logistics. Two 20 man raiding teams do not equal one 40 man raiding team, and there is every indication we'd have the same problem going from two 10 man raiding teams to a 20 man raiding team. I always thought the veteran dungeons were a good enough form of training that happened before and during attunement, at least in the broad strokes. If I were to make a suggestion (and I have no issue with an added raid being inserted before attunement, or even using the 20 man raid as an alternative for attunement, as long as that raid is sufficiently easy enough to teach newcomers without simply allowing them to be carried through) I'd say it might be best to make the new raid a 20 man, and replace the world boss step of attunement with it. That seems to be a consistent thorn in people's sides, world bosses are meant to be a way to get ready for 20 man raids but are doing a poor job, and it could be completed with a lot less hassle by an actual raid team. I would STRESS that this raid doesn't just need to be easier, but also probably shorter. If it's just replacing world bosses, there's no better experience than an actual raid, even if it only is 4 bosses and it's easier than GA. That would be far more effective as a raid introduction step than we are currently receiving from world bosses. | |} ---- ---- ----